By Phil Dumontet, CEO, Laurel Innovations
Feb. 19th, 2026

I recently had the opportunity to interview Hugh Brasher, CEO of London Marathon Events and steward of the TCS London Marathon, for our latest episode of The Future of Running.

London is the UK’s biggest street party, the largest annual one-day fundraising event in the world, and depending on the year, the largest marathon on Earth.

But what struck me most was not the scale.

It was the stewardship.

Here are the 10 lessons that stayed with me most from our conversation.

1) Confidence is built by attempting the “impossible”

Hugh grew up steeped in sporting history. His father, Chris Brasher, was an Olympic gold medalist and co-founder of the London Marathon, and his mother, Nicola Brasher, was a former British tennis champion and journalist.

His father helped Roger Bannister break the four-minute mile, a barrier many believed was physiologically impossible.

Hugh said: “You get confidence by trying things that you think aren’t possible.”

Even when he set a recent personal goal that turned out to be unrealistic, he reframed it:

“You should shoot for the stars and if you hit the moon - that’s not bad going.”

Takeaway: The attempt builds the confidence. The confidence builds the life.

2) Running is more mental than physical

When I asked how much of the sport is mental versus physical, Hugh did not hesitate.

“I think it’s hugely mental.”

His father was not considered the most talented of his training group. But he was the one who won Olympic gold.

“So many occasions where people are far more talented, but it is about what you do with your mind, what you believe is possible, how well you prepare.”

Takeaway: Belief and preparation compound. Talent alone does not.

3) A marathon should run with the city, not through it

One of the most powerful leadership lessons came when we discussed road closures and stakeholder management.

Hugh said: “We have a responsibility not to run through the city but to run with the city.”

London is able to close its roads for longer than ever this year because of the value it gives back to the community it serves. It’s a true partnership – not just economically, but socially and culturally.

Takeaway: If you treat a city like a backdrop, it will resist you. If you treat it like a partner, it will champion you.

4) Charity scales when the experience transforms people

London has raised more than £1.4 billion since inception. More than 75 percent of runners participate for a cause.

Hugh described the emotional experience of race day:

“You will float on this sea of positivity… you will feel so on top of the world and you will almost feel immortal.”

The fundraising works because the marathon changes people. When people transform, they inspire generosity.

Takeaway: Impact follows meaning. Meaning follows transformation.

5) Excellence at scale means creating an individual experience for 56,000 people

Hugh’s operating philosophy is simple and difficult at the same time.

“We want to give an individual experience in a mass participation world.”

That means smarter seeding, better flow, thoughtful communications, and designing every touchpoint around the runner.

Takeaway: Scale is not an excuse to be impersonal. It is a mandate to be better.

6) Growth requires duty, not ego

In 2026, more than 1.13 million people applied for the London Marathon. Eighty thousand applications came from the United States alone.

With that demand, expansion becomes a responsibility.

“We are duty bound… to try and expand it.”

But expansion is disciplined. London extended road closure times to improve flow before increasing numbers.

“You only get to change it once a year.”

Takeaway: Growth without flow breaks trust. Protect the experience first.

7) Long-term vision starts by imagining what feels impossible

Hugh shared how London plans five years at a time.

“We look to imagine the future that we want to exist in… not what we can imagine, but almost what we can’t imagine.”

Then they work backward.

“What would be absolutely incredible? And that is the goal we set. And then we work backwards from that.”

He compared it to racing motorbikes.

“You don’t look at the corner, you look through the corner… If you look to the danger, you will end up in the danger.”

Takeaway: Vision first. Operations second. Reverse engineer the path.

8) Values are the operating system

Before leading London Marathon Events, Hugh built the specialist retailer Sweatshop into a national brand.

The biggest lesson he carried forward was about values.

“If you share the same values… while you might have disagreements, in the end you will come back to a philosophical agreement.”

When he became CEO, one of his first actions was gathering the team to define and internalize values.

Takeaway: Strategy changes. Values anchor.

9) The future will be shaped by technology, but defined by feeling

We talked about 2081. Drones delivering aid. Real-time biometrics. AI-generated race footage.

Hugh acknowledged technology will shape the next era. “I think the next era will be about data… digital twins… wearable intelligence.”

But then he pivoted. “I just want to feel. I want to feel. That’s what I want.”

He believes the pendulum may swing back toward raw human experience.

Takeaway: Technology should amplify emotion, not replace it.

10) Stewardship is the job

When I asked Hugh what he wants to be known for, he did not mention records, profits, or prestige.

“I am a steward of a brand… my job is purely to leave London Marathon events in a better place than when I took it on.”

He described the model his father built as:

“This beautiful circle of positivity where we make the money, we give it to the foundation… the foundation then gives it out to inspire activity further.”

The goal is not ownership.

It is guardianship.

Takeaway: The best leaders do not own institutions. They protect them.

Final Thought

Hugh ended our conversation with this: “The future of running is in our hands… we need to nurture it… treasure it… work together because together we will achieve far more than we ever will do as individuals.”

London did not become iconic overnight.

It became iconic because generation after generation chose stewardship over shortcuts.

That is how you build something that lasts.

The Future of Running on Head Start is a mini-series presented by Laurel, exploring where the sport is headed. Listen to my full interview with Hugh Brasher here. I have included a full transcript of our conversation, edited for readability, below.

 

Phil Dumontet (00:04.024)
Welcome back to The Future of Running, fresh off an incredible conversation with Wayne Lardon at TCS City Marathon. We’re going to continue our journey around the world circuit — and today we are heading to London.

Today’s guest is at the center of one of the most important running institutions in the world. Hugh Brasher is the CEO of London Marathon Events, the organization behind the London Marathon — the UK’s biggest street party (which I can attest to firsthand), the largest single-day fundraiser in the world, and of course, depending on the time of year, the largest marathon in the world as well.

His connection to the sport runs deep, shaped by family, competition, and a lifetime inside elite sport — which we’ll chat about. And today we’re talking about excellence at scale: what it really means to steward a race of this size that belongs not just to the runners, but to a city, a country, and a global community. Hugh, welcome to the show.

Hugh Brasher (00:52.765)
Thank you, Phil. Delighted to be here.

Phil Dumontet (00:56.066)
Well, the last time I saw you, I think we were running across the Golden Gate Bridge together, which was a good place to catch up. What’s next for you personally right now?

Hugh Brasher (01:05.677)
Well, I’m sort of heading stateside soon — heading to Los Angeles and then Austin. Yes, San Francisco was a great experience. I think you were shepherding me along with Sam Brown from Let’s Do This on the San Francisco Half Marathon, so I felt very honored to have the two of you basically almost clearing the way for me.

And we love going to races, we love seeing what people are doing, being part of this amazing community of race organizers, of competitors, of just people getting together. That’s what running is all about — and doing it around the world is such a privilege and such an honor.

Phil Dumontet (01:46.677)
Hugh, anytime you need a pacer, you just let me know. I’ll be there. That was an honor for me to do that — and a lot of fun as well. It’s nice not to have the pressure of trying to hit a time goal necessarily, and just trying to help others hit their goals. So I could see why pacers love what they do.

Hugh Brasher (02:01.093)
Yeah, and you guys were running well within your pace, so it made it a great experience.

Phil Dumontet (02:07.438)
Well, I appreciate that. Any big goals that you’re chasing personally?

Hugh Brasher (02:11.869)
Well, I had a big goal for last year which turned out to be quite a stupid goal. So I had a few New Year’s resolutions, some of which came off. One was a date night with my wife every single month. Another one was to lose four kilos. But then I had a goal to run a sub-five-minute mile.

And what I didn’t realize when I set that goal — I thought I used to run sort of 3:53 for 1500 meters, 14:20 for 5000. That’s a long time ago. So I thought sort of five minutes for a mile — that would be quite possible. I didn’t realize when I set it, until I was looking at good-for-age times for London Marathon, that actually it was an over-60s British record. So I didn’t achieve it. Not surprisingly, I think I set the bar rather too high.

So if I can sort my current health issues out, I want to try and run a sub-five-minute 1500. I did a lot of track training last year and it was a great experience to get back on the track after so long. And I always think that you set yourself some goals — and you know, I like a phrase that you should shoot for the stars, and if you hit the moon, that’s not bad going. So that was my shooting for the stars. I’m not sure whether I got to the moon or not, but I’ve recalibrated what’s going on for this year.

Phil Dumontet (03:32.426)
Love it, Hugh. Well, wishing you the best of luck at that.

Well, we’ll rewind here a bit. I want to go back to your origin story, which is just fascinating in terms of, of course, your father — co-founder of the London Marathon — such an inspiration. Chris Brasher, British Olympic gold medalist. And your mother as well, a sports champion. What was it like growing up in that environment, surrounded by elite athletes and champions?

Hugh Brasher (03:57.635)
Look, I think it was… you don’t realize the environment you’re in as a kid. Yeah, as you said, my father won Olympic gold medal in the steeplechase in 1956. He was the pacemaker to Roger Bannister in setting the first sub-four-minute mile. And then he co-founded the London Marathon. And my mother was French tennis open champion — both singles, mixed, and doubles — so a triple grand slam champion. But basically they’re just your mum and your dad.

You’re walking around, people might come up for their autograph or have a long conversation. You know, as far as you’re concerned, it’s like, “Why are these people doing it?” They’re just my mum and my dad. So that was the environment as kids.

We all played tennis. I had two sisters — one turned professional, aged 17, played Wimbledon. I sadly was a half-decent tennis player and then sort of did running and then motorbike racing. But I was never to the standard. You know, sport is the most amazing thing to bring people together. It is also, I think, an amazing life lesson that you get from it: that the more that you put into something, the more that you’ll get out of it.

And, you know, running especially — it’s about training, it’s about doing it over time, it’s about gradually building up. It’s a brilliant metaphor for what we need to do in life. And, you know, even when you’re training as an individual, you’re better training with a group of mates. I used to have a group of mates down the athletic club, and you actually had a coach. And, you know, if you had a masseuse… actually you were building a team of individuals into a team that were helping you.

And in life, we will get far further by working together, surrounding ourselves with brilliant people. And I think sport can teach us so much. And yeah, it was a great upbringing as a kid. Sport was just what we did, and we tried to be the best we could be. You know, I was never going to be an Olympic gold medalist, but I could have fun, could train as hard as I could. I used to run 70 miles a week and work 70 hours a week. And then I’d have the odd drink — probably too much — but it was great fun.

Phil Dumontet (06:17.857)
You’ve brilliantly said, love that: the more you put into it, the more you get out of it. And we’ve talked about it, but I think it’s this beautiful metaphor: when you do something hard and you challenge yourself and do something you don’t think you could do — whether it’s running a marathon or hitting a certain time in the mile — you earn that confidence. And the beautiful thing is the confidence doesn’t stay limited to that domain. All of a sudden you bring that to your professional career, your relationships, everything else in life. So it really has this brilliant kind of spillover effect, to your point, which I just love. So, you said—

Hugh Brasher (06:46.385)
Yeah, I think, yeah. To me, confidence is so important in life. And the more that we can teach that confidence — and you get confidence by trying things that, as you say, you think aren’t possible. And it was one of my father’s great mantras in terms of when he was trying to help Sir Roger Bannister do the sub-four, and it might have been said to be physiologically impossible for a man to run under four minutes for a mile.

The Americans were trying, the Swedes were trying, the Brits were trying. For nine years people tried to break this mythical barrier of four minutes. But once the barrier got broken, it got broken by John Landy days later. Once one person has achieved this… and that’s what you have to do. You set yourself these goals, and whether you succeed or not, you get some confidence from doing it — from confidence either from success or nearly from success. And that’s just, again, a brilliant thing.

I think the more in society we try and push boundaries, the more confident that we will be — and hopefully the better we will be.

Phil Dumontet (07:49.676)
Exactly.

Phil Dumontet (08:05.557)
And I know you said, you know, you had your mum and dad, they were just — they were so accessible, right? They’re just walking around your house. They’re just your mum and dad. But I have to think that there was this osmosis when you’re just kind of around them — seeing the confidence that the sport gave to them, whether it was running or tennis, supporting Roger, you know, in your father’s case. You may have been quite young, but you are experiencing the same kind of absorbing it and seeing that leadership that they’re modeling to you as well.

Hugh Brasher (08:35.389)
Yes, and there were all sorts of other attributes in terms of having an inquiring mind and not accepting just what people say. And then this bit about surrounding yourself with amazing people.

The coach — my father’s coach — for when he won his gold medal: he ran a PB by seven seconds in a 3000-meter steeplechase through being motivated. And he was the pacemaker, as I said, in this first sub-four-minute mile. But he didn’t want to be. He ran the first 800 meters of that in 1:57, and he believed that there were loads of athletes — which there were — that could run the first 800 meters in 1:57. And he didn’t want to become famous on the back of Roger Bannister’s achievements, and that spurred him to want to be the best he could be at the steeplechase.

And he was only the third Brit actually selected to represent Great Britain in the 1956 Olympics, but he prepared himself brilliantly. And he got this amazing coach, Frank Stamffel, who was Austrian and was torpedoed in the Second World War, and they tried unconventional things. There was a story how they were doing 400-meter reps — and I think it was eight by 400 meters with, I think it was a minute recovery — and they couldn’t get under 60 seconds. And it was weeks and weeks and weeks of trying. And actually, what did they do? Stanffel said, “Take a rest.”

So my dad allegedly bundled Roger Bannister into the back of an old 1950s sports car, and up they went to Wales, and they went climbing in Wales, and had three or four days off running. And they came back, tried again, and then they knew that they broke that time — that 60 seconds for the reps. So yeah, it really was about: yeah, just try different things and don’t accept… don’t accept no for an answer. I think that was the osmosis. That was the feeling that I had growing up.

Phil Dumontet (10:43.277)
It’s amazing.

Hugh Brasher (10:49.009)
…don’t accept no for an answer. I think that was the osmosis. That was the feeling that I had growing up.

Phil Dumontet (10:53.036)
Yes.

Hugh, how much do you think of our great sport is mental versus physical?

Hugh Brasher (11:01.181)
Look, I think it’s hugely mental. And again, that was the thing that, without a doubt, was taught. My father wasn’t the most talented athlete. In fact, of the three — there was Roger Bannister, Chris Chatterway, Chris Brasher — Roger was obviously the world record holder at a mile. Chris Chatterway was the world record holder of 5000 meters. There was a memorable occasion in 1954 when he beat Vladimir Kutz at White City.

And it was actually the reason that Roger Bannister got voted the Sports Personality of the Year in 1954 — the same year that Roger broke the four-minute mile. But both of those are world record holders. My father never was, but he was the only one of the three that won an Olympic gold medal.

And so I think you have so many occasions where people are far more talented, but it is about what you do with your mind — what you believe is possible, how well you prepare. And this self-belief, I think, is enormously important. And I think, you know, that’s how the London Marathon was founded on the back of my father and John Disley going to New York in 1979, and Fred Lebow, and seeing what the New York Road Runners had done…

…come with this incredible event. And my father wrote about it in The Observer. And he wrote that, you know, he’d won Olympic gold medal, that he had been at the World Cup when England had scored and beaten Germany in the final. He’d been at the Derby when Gordon Richards was riding. He’d heard the roar of the crowd in so many different sports occasions, but he’d never heard such a roar as the crowd willing on 20,000 normal everyday runners in the New York City Marathon.

And he finished his article. He talked about that it was like an epiphany — and it’d be like Saul on the road to Damascus. He’d had this epiphany. And he finished his article with writing that he knew that London had the course — and that was John Disley and John Disley’s design — but did London have the heart and the soul to welcome the world?

Phil Dumontet (13:56.461)
It’s a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing that. And how wonderful is that — that your father wrote in The Observer and that you still have that memory and that inspiration from that first New York City Marathon, and then bringing it to London and launching such an amazing event.

You talk about being the best that you can be — I love that phrase. I know you’ve said that even in this interview today. What does “being the best” mean when you’re operating London at such scale as you are today?

Hugh Brasher (14:23.953)
I think it’s really trying to look at every single aspect of the event and give an amazing experience to every single runner. The phrase that I use is that we want to give an individual experience in a mass-participation world. So if we can get 56,000 people to have this amazing individual experience — but do it together with other people — it’s their experience. It is something that they feel that is unique to them. That is what we strive to deliver.

And it’s almost the antithesis of what so many people do in life, which is — I call it the sausage machine. So it’s like education. If you fit in the sausage in the middle of education, then you’re probably going to be fine. But if you’re on the outside edges — if you’re dyscalculic, if you have dyslexia, whatever you might be, if you’re incredibly bright, if you just don’t fit in the middle — and therefore often this sort of mass that doesn’t work. Well actually, we want to try and do the opposite. We want to try and welcome everybody from wherever they are, to have this amazing experience.

And I think it’s one of the biggest reasons that running is booming at the moment: is that we have a community that so many people can find their tribe within. Not only can you find your tribe, but even if there’s another tribe, they will still welcome you. We’re not against each other, we’re for each other.

And in a world of more division — in a world where media, where politicians are trying to divide us — I think marathon running is such a force for good. And running is such a force for good because it brings us together.

Phil Dumontet (16:25.500)
Beautifully said — and such a force for good. And also, what other sport could you bring together 56,000 individual experiences and yet have that commonality of that start line, of that course experience, the epic crowds that fill the TCS London Marathon, that finish line? You’ve got those points of commonality that you can all relate to, and yet you can find your tribe, as you said — which I just love.

Well, of course, we’re talking about the TCS London Marathon. We have to talk about the charity piece of it. Excuse me. London is the largest one-day fundraising event in the UK. It operates on a completely different level globally — raises 80 to 90 million pounds every year, more than 1.3 billion pounds all time. And just to put that in perspective: it’s the equivalent to funding multiple major hospitals every single year. Raises more in one day than most global charities raise in an entire year, and even exceeds the kind of global raise from the next one or two world marathons combined.

I want to dig into this, Hugh, and share a little bit more about: how did this happen? Why did this happen? And what has made charity such a foundation for London from the beginning?

Hugh Brasher (17:45.745)
Yeah, I think, you know, London and Britain have our own eccentricities — fancy dress being one of them. It’s just a cultural thing, and it’s one of the reasons I love this whole sort of World Marathon Majors — sort of six, seven races — and every single one of them is different, and the culture is different. You know, London, you can get passed by a rhino or by a full gorilla suit, and this might not work—

Phil Dumontet (18:20.875)
And I have. I can tell you that right now.

Hugh Brasher (18:23.077)
Yeah, and one of the most famous English cricketers — I think it was Andrew Strauss — I remember him just coming to the finish line on the Mall. And this is absolutely… in terms of, you know, cricket’s not a big sport in America, but this is one of the most prolific batsmen that England has ever had, and a fantastic captain of England. And he’s coming to the finish line, and I just remember this guy in a full-on gorilla suit just coming out of nowhere and crossing the finish line just in front of him.

And I’m just trying to think of Andrew Strauss there — his finish line photograph is him with a gorilla. So look, I mean…

Phil Dumontet (19:01.211)
I would wager there’s more fun costumes at the TCS London Marathon than any other marathon in the world. No statistic to back that up, but just anecdotally speaking, you’re guaranteed to see some incredible costumes — and more than anywhere else.

Hugh Brasher (19:14.265)
Absolutely. So it’s sort of — charity was actually there from 1981. We didn’t know that until probably about 10 years ago. We found out it was there at the very start. And it actually started off as a business program. It started off to get businesses to come and have some corporate places. And then those businesses didn’t take it up; a few charities took it up; and then it’s just snowballed.

And it snowballed because running 26.2 miles is an incredible achievement. Still less than 1% of the world has run 26.2 miles. And we might say, “It’s a marathon and it’s fine and you could do an ultra” — that is still an incredible achievement. And it can really change your life for good.

What is amazing about the TCS London Marathon is more than 50% of the people taking part will be first-timers. So you have this real desire of people wanting to do something for a good cause. In the UK, one in two people will get cancer or absolutely know someone with cancer. So whether it’s a cancer charity, whether it’s a children’s charity — this reason for run, this motivation that you’re doing some good — I think is very much a British culture.

And, you know, again, in America it’s huge in terms of individual fundraisers who raise huge amounts of money. This is much more egalitarian in a way. So, you know, it really drives colour on the course — you know, the support that you’re going to get from the moment that you start at Greenwich to the moment that you finish in front of Buckingham Palace on the Mall. You know, you are riding on this incredible sea of positivity.

And I say that we’re lucky in life if we have five people that really are willing us to be successful — you know, whether it’s your partner, whether it’s your kids, or your best friend. If you’ve got five people willing you to be successful, you’re doing well in life. On that day, you will have tens of thousands of people willing you to be successful, willing you to get to that finish line. And you will float on this sea of positivity, and you will feel like you’ve just won one of the Seahawks and you’ve just won the Super Bowl, or you’re Andy Murray at Wimbledon, or you are scoring the winning goal in the World Cup. You will feel so on top of the world, and you will almost feel immortal.

And that feeling is something that we’re not going to get almost anywhere else but these major city marathons. And I think London does it incredibly well from the support. You know, we know the average runner brings 4.4 people, and that each one moves to 2.2 locations. We’ve got a brilliant transport system in terms of Docklands Light Railway, the Underground, Overground lines. People can move around that 26.2 mile course that John Disley designed — and they do move. It’s like wildebeest in the Serengeti. There’s this herd of people moving across, yeah, supporting.

Yeah — charity, as you say, it’s an incredible 1.13… it’s actually more than £1.4 billion pounds, and the biggest one-day annual… yeah, and, you know, it’s the biggest annual one-day fundraising event in the world.

Phil Dumontet (22:48.735)
Hmm. It’s incredible.

Phil Dumontet (23:01.545)
Wow. Thank you for the latest statistics. Yeah, it’s incredible.

Hugh Brasher (23:09.213)
Records are there to be beaten. We’ve got some interesting plans coming up for how we can carry on beating it. But it’s the runners that do it. More than 1.8 million people have given money to someone running in the London Marathon. That’s an incredible support basis that you have.

Phil Dumontet (23:29.055)
That’s really what inspired me most too, Hugh, when I started running personally and then launching into this industry as an event organizer as well. I always said marathons were the most inspirational days of the year for me — whether I was a runner or spectator or volunteer — they’re just theatres of inspiration. It is, like you said, you’re the star of your own show in the sense of there’s nothing else like it when you’re participating in the TCS London Marathon.

But then when you take it to the next level and realize it’s not just your own show — it’s the charity and the impact cause that you’ve taken up. All of that is also represented in why you’re running those 26 miles. It’s why I’ve broken down into tears after marathons, and you see so many do, because it’s such an emotional experience to know what you’re carrying through.

And I’ve had a wonderful conversation with Mike Nishi in Chicago about this, and he likes to say: right now and in the past, the common question is, “What are you gonna run?” or “What’s your goal?” “What’s your time?” “What’s your PB that you’re going for?” And he thinks, more and more so in the next five to 10 years, the default question won’t be, “What are you hoping to run?” It’s, “Who are you running for?” “What is the impact that you’re looking for?” “Who is it on behalf?”

And it sounds like that’s exactly how you’re thinking about it too moving forward — that becomes the default versus the time or the speed.

Hugh Brasher (24:50.033)
100%. I think it’s more than 75% of the runners in the marathon are running for a cause.

Phil Dumontet (24:57.140)
Wow — 75%.

Hugh Brasher (24:58.621)
And even if, you know, it is a cause — the cause can be, if it’s even not for charity, it can be the cause of trying to get a good-for-age time. It could be trying to get a Boston qualifier. Those are causes. It’s still a cause to try and get a PB. You know, everyone is different, but virtually everybody is running for a cause. It’s just — so I think it’s a great way of putting it. Again, it’s what binds all the runners together, and all the crowd supporting them, because they know that that’s what they’re there for: a cause.

Phil Dumontet (25:38.026)
And even at this scale here, where do you still see opportunities to grow one of those charity programs in the years ahead?

Hugh Brasher (25:44.509)
It depends when this podcast comes out. We’ve got some very interesting announcements.

Phil Dumontet (25:48.426)
We can time it accordingly if you’d like.

Hugh Brasher (25:53.021)
Yeah — so we’ve got some very interesting announcements that we hope are coming up, plans that we’ve been working on for years. You know, it is a challenge. 1.13 million people applied for the 2026 TCS London Marathon. That was 80,000 from America alone.

It is just incredible how many people want to get this amazing experience. So we are duty bound, we believe, to try and expand it.

We’ve been able to expand it by having longer road closure times. So in 2025, we got an extra half an hour of road closure times, so our start process could go over a two-hour period rather than a one hour 30 period. So that actually allowed us to take more runners, but in theory to give them a better running experience.

And one of the things that all the majors do: they work with this brilliant crowd scientist called Altenberg, who looks at how the flow of runners — how, with each course, you can maximize the runners and minimize any issues as far as flow goes, so you enable them to run at the pace they want to run.

Again, this is part of how we want to use technology to seed people better, to link in with their training plans. If you’re running with Strava or running with Garmin Connect, how could we take that training to seed you appropriately so that you will get the best run possible? These are all things that we’re looking to the future for.

But yeah, we have a duty to try and have fast runners. You know, we’re very proud that it is said that the London Marathon is harder to win than the Olympic Marathon or the World Championships. And if you look at the elite fields that we’ve got in 2026, they are quite incredible. I mean, both Jacob Kiplimo, Sebastian Sawe… in terms of the women’s event, Tigist Assefa — you know, the current women’s-only world record holder — Peres Jepchirchir…

I mean, Sifan Hassan — you know, the top three ranked… you’ve got the top three ranked women in the world and Sifan Hassan. And, you know, what she did at the Olympics — running the 10,000 meters and getting the bronze, 36 hours later running the marathon and then getting gold and beating Tigist in that insane sprint finish — was incredible. You know, we’ve got some amazing athletes.

And, you know, it’s putting it all together. It’s been on the BBC. We’ve got this amazing partnership with BBC where we’re getting — it’s basically six hours of live coverage of the event, and we’ve had it every year for 45 years, and that’s an incredible partnership.

Phil Dumontet (28:48.456)
Amazing. One of the questions I wanted to circle back to later in the conversation was around those conversations with the stakeholders and the city and the government agencies — on how marathons are such a force for good. And maybe we’ll touch on it a bit here.

As you mentioned, this kind of expansion of the road closures — from that one-and-a-half-hour mark to a two-hour mark — in order to create a better participant experience and bring more participants in and create more accessibility and inclusivity. How do you approach those conversations, Hugh, to create the kind of stakeholder support to understand why it’s important for the TCS London Marathon to extend its road closure?

Hugh Brasher (29:28.573)
So we have a real duty to London and London’s population. And, you know, we’re allowed to run on the roads of London due to the Mayor of London, the boroughs, and the private landowners.

And when my father came back from New York in 1979, in charge of what was the Greater London Authority at that stage, I think, was someone called Horace Cutler. And my father went to Horace Cutler and said, “Can I have the roads of London to run a marathon on?” Because at that stage in the UK, you basically ran in the countryside supported by three cows and four horses.

And so Horace Cutler said, “Yes, you can have the roads of London as long as not a penny of public money ever goes your way.” So my father, being a contrary fellow — because he was quite contrary, for those people that would know him — turned it on his head. Any profit that the marathon made would go back into inspiring activity and back into providing facilities — sports facilities — in the areas that we put events on.

So this duty that’s there from the word go — we have to be very mindful of that, very careful of it. We really want the London Marathon to represent this amazing city. London has just got some amazing culture, it’s got some amazing history, it’s got some amazing diversity. And we have a responsibility not to run through the city, but to run with the city.

And so therefore balancing economic benefit that we’ll get from international runners with diversity, equity, inclusion, with fast runners, good-for-age runners, championship runners — how do you mix all these different things? Having a ballot that is fair? What we try and do… running clubs have always been the backbone of the London Marathon in the early days. My father was Ranelagh Harriers — who he was a member of — and it was Ranelagh Harriers clubmates who persuaded him to go to New York. And they used to run the ballot along with Blackheath Harriers and South London Harriers — all these very old running clubs that have been around more than 120 years.

So they’re still a really important part. So we have all these different groups that are vying for more places. And it is incredibly hard how you do it. And you have to try and balance it. You have to look to the future. You have to look to the event that you’re trying to create.

And the event that we’re trying to create is one that mixes the uniqueness of London with the fact that we are bringing people together on an international stage, and in one of the key capitals of the world. And we’re really showing that we can be unified as human beings. And that’s what we’re showing, and that’s what we need more of. And we’re very aware of that.

Phil Dumontet (32:54.313)
I love that you brought it back to run clubs too. And obviously there’s an explosion of run clubs today, and it’s driving so much new growth in our sport. But like you said, it goes back to 1981 as well.

When I think about run clubs, to me it’s kind of the front door to the sport. It’s the entry point. It removes that intimidation factor. If you’ve never run before, you don’t “become a runner.” All you have to do is show up with a friend to one of your run clubs, and all of a sudden you are on that highway to becoming a runner — you’re on that track. And they’re also basically ready-made friend groups as well, right? You’ve got a point of commonality, you’ve got something to work through.

We talked about it earlier — overcoming hardship. How much easier is it with a companion and somebody supporting you? Your father and Roger — which is an amazing example of that.

How do you think about run clubs now? What are those points of commonality from the run clubs of 1981 that helped drive London to start? And then what’s potentially different about it today?

Hugh Brasher (34:00.443)
Yeah, I mean, look, there’s what I call the sort of older running clubs — and those are the ones I was talking about earlier. And then there’s the running crews. There’s where there are more groups of people that don’t necessarily have a clubhouse, but they come together. They come together on WhatsApp. They come together in groups. It’s a much younger demographic.

I think one of the incredible things is that of our — in the UK, we had 860,000 people apply — and of those, more than a third were under the age of 30. So we have community places for these running crews, and we didn’t used to have that. If you go back, you know, even when I started in 2012 — in terms of being the event director — that didn’t exist. I brought the running crew places in.

And I think, you know, how we can make the sport… it’s really important, I think, that we try and show leadership in the sport — in sustainability, in how we talk with run crews, how we look at disability, whether it’s wheelchair racing, whether it’s people in duos — how can we really bring more people into this incredible ecosystem?

It’s very different now. There are far more groups. None of them are happy with the number of places that they’ve got. Everyone thinks they should have more places. We have to return London back to the Mayor and to the authorities and to the businesses and to the theatres for the city to carry on doing it.

We’re allowed to have this amazing day where we can run on these incredible roads steeped in history — and steeped in running history — as well as whether it’s Royal Family, whether it’s the Houses of Parliament, whatever is going on in Great Britain. These are the roads that you’re running on. You’re running past the Cutty Sark at 10K, the Tower of London — how many people’s heads? Yeah.

Phil Dumontet (36:25.462)
It’s amazing. All the major sites. And to your point, that’s such an interesting statistic — you get to see your runner at the TCS London Marathon 2.2 times. I saw my parents, I think, three or four times when I ran London — and I can prove it on Strava because my time got so much faster when I saw them. I got that instant boost, right?

But that’s a great segue too in terms of: how big can the TCS London Marathon get? Do you see growth in the size of race day itself, or in other events year-round leading up to it? Where do you see the most growth? And how big can the TCS London Marathon get?

Hugh Brasher (37:07.005)
So look, I think we do plan a long way ahead. We’re planning at the moment — there are different interesting plans all the way up to 2030, which is our 50th race. Certainly by the time that we are at our 50th race, we want the whole week to be filled with running across London, and potentially across the world, to celebrate this incredible event and what it means to people.

So yeah, we’re really talking to a lot of people. We’ve got a new event coming on Friday night. So this year we’re launching — there’s a company called Friday Night Lights, and they generally run on a Friday night. It’s a younger demographic, it’s music, it’s light. We will have a Friday Night Lights 5K at the TCS London Marathon. It’s in Battersea Park — another park — and hopefully runners from around the world and around Britain.

First year it will be 5,000. We’ve got a plan to take it to 20,000 people by year four. Again, we just have to gradually take it up, get permission to do it.

One of the things I’m probably most proud of in terms of new initiatives is what we do for kids. So there is the Mini London Marathon the day before. And this year we had 30,000 school kids apply in eight days. We let in 22,000. And on the day — this is the day before the London Marathon — we will have 18,000 school kids all being timed, running either one mile or 2.6K.

And every single one of those children will be paid £10 — so let’s go $13 — to do that event. And that money will go towards its school for either computer equipment or sports equipment. And we’re really targeting some of the most disadvantaged schools — the ones that need the funds.

And this is also building — it’s giving kids the opportunity to run on this incredible course. They run around St. James’s Park. They finish on the same finish line as the gods of the sport are going to finish the next day. They can see it on telly. And we’re building the customer of the future.

That memory — that incredible memory — we believe will be with them. And what is happening is the schools are getting more and more engaged. And our plan by 2030 is to have 50,000 school kids doing the TCS Mini London Marathon.

And then you’ve got more than 50,000 — near 60,000 — adults doing the marathon the following day. And we’ll have the Friday Night Lights. We’ll have a host of other events going on. And it will truly be an amazing celebration.

We want to bring culture into it, get people to come to London, see what a great city it is, see that it is a city of activity — and experience it in this incredible week. That’s 2030.

Phil Dumontet (40:31.964)
I love the long-term plans — and that’s incredible with 18,000 kids coming. That’s obviously a record for that event as well, right? And that’s significantly up from what I last saw from last year as well.

Hugh Brasher (40:41.405)
Yeah, yes. Last year was 15,000 finishes. This year it should be 18. We’ve got a plan — this is a plan that we’ve been executing since 2021, I think. So that’s when we changed the Mini Marathon.

If you go to the history of people that have taken part in the Mini London Marathon — Mo Farah, Alistair Brownlee — I think Alistair Brownlee, the Olympic gold medalist, I think he came ninth. There are some incredible athletes that have taken part in it. So you’ve got some of the best kids taking part, and then just again, like the marathon, some of the best elite athletes. And then you’ve got a sea of humanity — of everyday kids, of everyday people — who are treading those same asphalt roads that those gods, those greatest athletes, have trodden before them.

Phil Dumontet (41:34.184)
Hugh, one of the things I respect most about you is how you think long term. And that’s the perfect example of it in terms of your long-term strategic thinking. It sounds like you look at strategic planning in five-year or 10-year increments.

Can you walk us through a little bit how you balance the short-term needs and the operational requirements of running the largest marathon in the world with a five- or 10-year strategic plan? And what goes into that planning process?

Hugh Brasher (42:03.629)
So absolutely, as a company we always have this five-year plan. And how we come about it is we get together as a senior executive team and we look to imagine the future that we want to exist in. And we look to not what we can imagine, but almost what we can’t imagine.

We try to get away from what you think is possible and get into what you think would be amazing. So throw away all the things about, “We can’t do this” or “We can’t do that.” Hang on — just let that go. What would be absolutely incredible? And that is the goal we set.

And then we work backwards from that. So we know where we want to be, and we know where we are. So what we then do is put the steps — the yearly steps — in place to get there. And there has to be some reality in the steps that you’re getting there.

You then set about to take actions that are going to lead you to the first step. And if you’ve got the first step, you can then get to the second step. You get to the second, you can get to the third. And it is absolutely incredible where you can get to if you believe in it.

And I think, coming back to the sport analogy, I used to race motorbikes at a fairly reasonable standard. And if you’re on a track, you don’t look at the corner — you look through the corner. You look to where you want to go. That is where you will end up.

If you look to the danger, you will end up in the danger. You look to the future. You look to where you want to go. And so you surround yourself with brilliant people. Really, you get your vision, you get your yearly plans — and that’s what we do as a team.

And then we talk about it. We benchmark ourselves every three or four months on our yearly plan. And then if we don’t achieve it, we sit down and work out why we have or why we haven’t — what we have done and what we haven’t done. And try and be kind to ourselves as to whether we’ve achieved something or not. But keep going until you know where you want to get to.

Phil Dumontet (44:27.302)
I love it. And it goes back to the beginning of the conversation too — it’s the perceived impossibility and breaking through those barriers mentally. It’s, you know, “It is impossible to break the four-minute mile.” “It is impossible to break two hours in the marathon.”

It’s basically that mindset that you bring to these strategy sessions. That’s how you challenge the team and the overall board — thinking, what is “breaking two hours” for us? Right? And how do we think about that?

Hugh Brasher (44:55.611)
Yes, absolutely. And look, we were the operational team for Eliud in the INEOS 1:59, and it was an incredible program to be part of. And it was how do you get six incredible teams — whether it was Team Sky Cycling, whether it was the INEOS America’s Cup team, whether it was Global Sports and Valentin Taran and his group, whether it was Nike — you had all these incredible teams coming together.

And how could you, London Marathon Events, work together and do something that had seemed to be impossible? And Eliud as a human being is just such an incredible man — his mantra, what he talks about. “No human is limited.” We’re limited by our imaginations, and the more that we can let our imaginations fly, the more that we can achieve.

And again, that was something that was instilled upon me as a child. It’s like, yeah, don’t be shackled by what you believe is possible. Just think to what you want to do and what you want to achieve — and work so hard to achieve it with great people around it — and you will get there.

Phil Dumontet (46:27.611)
Such an inspiration. Thank you so much for that, Hugh.

I love how you said the only real limit is our imagination. It’s so true in all areas of life and our sport. There are so many shining examples of this.

I want to take a step back to before you were CEO of London Marathon Events. Your background is really interesting in terms of building Sweatshop from a single store into 43 locations, and then ultimately selling it to Sports Direct.

What were some of the biggest lessons that you learned from that experience that you took forward to your role today?

Hugh Brasher (47:03.619)
So just to explain, Sweatshop was the specialist running retailer — that was a name from the 1980s, as opposed to people wondering what the heck was that.

I learned again about partnerships. We did some really innovative things. We put the first-ever physiology laboratory into a retail environment back in 1997. You could get blood taken from your earlobes while you were on a treadmill, and we would find out your anaerobic threshold — so where you’re going from training in oxygen to without oxygen. And then the scientists would be able to write a training program to enable you to run as fast as you could with the time limits that you had. And this was stuff that we did in 1997.

We were one of the first retailers ever to put a foot plate into a retail environment. We really set about trying to give groundbreaking customer service.

I think the biggest thing that I probably learned and took into London Marathon Events was how important values are in a business — and how important they are for each one of us in life. And if you find a partner where you share the same values — whether that’s a life partner or a business partner — if you share the same values, while you might have some disagreements, in the end you will come back to a philosophical agreement on what you’re doing.

There are always lots of different ways to get to an end point, but if you always ground them in your values, then you will stay true to yourself and you will stay true for other people. So it’s important that they know your values.

Having those values — that was one of the first things coming into London Marathon Events that I did, which was to get the company — and then we were 22 people; we’re now 160 — but get the 22 people together and start talking about values. What did they mean? Why were they important?

It took time for people to really understand it. They put them in — did they really understand them? No. But within three years, they understood them, they lived them, they recognized them.

And that was taught to me by a brilliant business coach. It goes back to coaching and how important that is. There are always people that are better than us. And what we need to do is find them, take their brains — not literally — but there’s always something to learn.

And it’s the moment that you think you know it all, then as far as I’m concerned in business, you should be taken out and shot. And that’s the great thing about going around and doing events. We see what other people do. There are very few new ideas, but we can tinker, we can play, we can look at how we bring them into our own industry and into our event.

Very much I think it taught me that to build a business, you need to build it around values. That having groundbreaking customer service — which is what we were renowned for — comes back to what we’re trying to do at London Marathon Events: give this unique service to each of our customers. And every single one of them deserves the best possible us — to be as good as we can be for them — to give them that individual experience.

Phil Dumontet (51:03.066)
That’s a great setup for this next piece of the conversation around some of the hardships and challenges. And I think, to your point, there’s always a way to learn, always a way to iterate and share best practices. That’s really the inspiration and genesis of this podcast as well — to be able to share lessons from leaders like yourself and across the industry. We’ve all faced similar, if not the same, challenges, and we can learn from each other in order to overcome them — and not necessarily have to reinvent the wheel.

We’ve got audience members and listeners who are running 1,000-person races, 5,000-person races, 50,000-person races. What are your biggest challenges, Hugh, as the head of the TCS London Marathon?

Hugh Brasher (51:49.278)
Yeah, look, honestly, there are various different challenges at various different times. I think, you know, in the society — in the world — that we’re living in, you’ve got to be more agile in your thought than we probably have had to be previously.

Yet at the same time, we run events that only happen once a year. So to try and change something takes an awfully long time. So you’ve got this juxtaposition of agility needed — yet you can’t be that agile because the next time it’s going to happen is 12 months’ time.

Phil Dumontet (52:26.672)
Sure. You need to practice patience in that sense and let time do its thing, right?

Hugh Brasher (52:30.981)
Yes. And then maybe you practice something in one of your smaller events. So if you’re to do something big, probably the time to test it is not when you’ve got 60,000 people — but maybe when you’ve got 10,000 people.

For us, 10,000 people — hey, that’s normal. But if someone has got a 1,000-person race event, then try something out. If you do it, have a 200-person event.

I think, you know, the challenges that we will face — local authorities, permissions, communication. How can you… communication is a huge challenge. However much we communicate, we need to communicate more.

But we need to be consistent in that communication. We need to be clear in that communication. We need it to reflect the values that we have.

So I think the challenges change as society has changed. I mean, what we went through in COVID — and so many event organizers will have had it — we went overnight from effectively making about a £6 million profit to making a £5 million loss overnight.

How can you then think about what you can do? And we did have… we moved the London Marathon from April to October. And we did that because of the stakeholder engagement — the fact we could call people up before we’d announced the rescheduling and ask them, saying, “Look, we believe that society is going to go to a shutdown. What could we do?”

And the goodwill that we had from businesses — and that goodwill, I think that as an industry, we have it. And there are occasions we need to lean into it.

But the challenges are numerous and ever-changing. But I think it’s probably the fact that the event only takes place once a year — and therefore it is difficult to change it as often as society is changing at the moment.

Phil Dumontet (54:41.030)
Well said. I think we can all relate to that. The takeaway there is: what test-bed environment can you create? What smaller race? Where can you test it prior to the marquee event ultimately, so you have that experience — and have some patience around being able to do it as well.

Well, Hugh, we’ll go into the last section here — the future — which is an exciting part to talk about. It’s very clear to me in this conversation, for all who know you, the theme here is creating this long-term stewardship — this legacy institution that you’re carrying on from your father’s days and beyond.

My question for you is: long after your time as CEO of the TCS London Marathon and London Marathon Events, what do you want to be known for?

Hugh Brasher (55:28.733)
I hope I’m a good dad. I’ve got two girls — they’re 15 and 12. They’re the legacy. And that I tried my hardest. That I did it with the right values. That my heart was always in the right place.

That I truly believed in our purpose — and our purpose is to inspire activity. And that is the vision of London Marathon Events. That is the vision of our foundation, which all the profit goes to.

And this beautiful, beautiful circle — a circle of positivity — where we make the money, we give it to the foundation. The foundation then goes and gives it out to groups of people to inspire activity further. It is the most wondrous, virtuous circle that my father and John Disley created.

And I think my job is purely to leave London Marathon Events in a better place than when I took it on. I am a steward of a brand, and my job is to build that brand, make sure that its values are understood, make sure that they are relevant, make sure that the staff understand them, that our customers understand them, that our stakeholders do.

And I probably just want to be remembered as… I mean, a lawyer friend of mine — or he became a good friend — said that on my gravestone what should be written is: “Here lies a reasonable man.”

Whether… it genuinely is.

Phil Dumontet (57:05.071)
It sums it up pretty well, actually. Yeah. Well said. Beautifully said.

This is always a fun thought experiment for someone who’s such a visionary and long-term thinker like yourself. I’m curious about your answer on this.

So we’re standing on the TCS London Marathon start line in 2081 — 100 years after the first edition, where your father helped co-found it. What surprises us? What feels completely different? And what has to stay the same?

Hugh Brasher (57:40.002)
Look, it’s a fascinating question because the world that we’re moving into with AI and automation is speeding up so rapidly that trying to predict five years ahead is hard. And now you’re asking me to do 50 years.

I think what I hope — what I really hope — is what is the same is the feeling. The feeling that everybody gets on that start line — of nerves, of trepidation, of excitement. And then the feeling as they run that 26.2 miles: the feeling of tiredness, the feeling of doubt, the feeling of joy when they see their friends and family.

When they cross that finish line — the pouring out of emotion, the elation, the thought of “I’m never going to do it again,” but then almost straight away, “My God, that was the most incredible experience.”

What I want to be the same is that feeling. I think we can be moving into a world where too many people are existing outside a world of feeling. They’re progressing into a world of just a screen. They’re progressing into a world of headphones. They’re progressing into a world of detachment.

What I want is that the marathon — and I believe that together this is what we do better than anybody else — is we bring together that feeling of reality.

So what I want to happen — and I genuinely believe it will — is that we will ebb and flow in that 50 years. There’ll be some real moments of people’s doubts that that is what’s going to happen. But in the end, I think human beings are creatures of habit. We’re creatures of — we want company. We need company. We work better together when we have company.

And that is what we will provide as race organizers and event organizers: true, real-life experiences.

Phil Dumontet (59:58.342)
Amazingly said. We could have aid stations delivered by drones. Every runner has real-time biometric data, tracking segments in real time, AI-generated video, digital twins of our hearts — all this exciting technology. Who knows? You can’t predict the future.

But the technology should amplify that feeling — but nothing can replace that human feeling, ultimately, right?

Hugh Brasher (01:00:23.313)
Yes. And I think all of those things will happen relatively quickly, right? But I think this is where I go to 50 years’ time, and I think it will have gone through a circle.

I think that actually people at that stage — if you asked me 15 or 20 years, I’d be probably more into that technology being so much part of it. But I actually think there’ll be a rebellion against it eventually. And history shows us that life and the world go in circles.

And that’s where I’m going in 50 years’ time. I’m not sure people won’t actually go, “I want none of that. I just want to feel. I want to feel.” That’s what I want.

Phil Dumontet (01:01:03.599)
I’m not able to feel that anymore — exactly — because the pendulum swung too far in the other direction, right? As history shows.

Hugh Brasher (01:01:10.573)
Exactly. And it’s gone back to us desiring that feel. So actually, I’m going for a world where in 25 years’ time it’s all about digital twins, it’s all about form, it’s all about that. In 50 years’ time, it is truly about us being together — and throwing that away — and just feeling that 26.2 miles of road and that 26.2 miles of support and cheering.

That’s the world I hope that we go into. And I believe if we hold on, that’s the world we can make it.

Phil Dumontet (01:01:43.289)
I love that. It’s not so different from the world today that we’re in.

Hugh Brasher (01:01:47.037)
It’s not so different, but I think it becomes more important that that’s actually where we go.

Phil Dumontet (01:01:52.727)
Exactly. And perhaps there’s even more of an appreciation for it as well in that sense, right? Because we saw the pendulum swing too far in the other direction — where we’re just craving that human connection and human experience ultimately.

Hugh Brasher (01:02:04.515)
Exactly. That’s exactly it.

Phil Dumontet (01:02:07.201)
All right, we’ll finish up with my Phil’s Fast Five — kind of a lightning round here. This has been an incredible conversation, so I really appreciate it.

First question: what do you believe to be true about running that most people don’t believe yet or haven’t caught up to yet?

Hugh Brasher (01:02:27.273)
I think still most people don’t realize just how incredible it is to go for a run and feel the wind — feel whether it’s on sand and feel the sand between your toes. I still think that the majority of the world hasn’t caught up with that.

That might sound odd coming from — you know, we’re here talking to other event organizers or people that run — but I think truly the mental benefit that running gives us still is not fully understood.

In the London Marathon in 2017, we were the mental health marathon. It was the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge — Prince William and Kate at the time — and Prince Harry came together and talked about mental health. And I think we’ve come a long way since 2017. But I still think people haven’t fully grasped that prevention is infinitely better than cure.

You don’t have to do it to an extreme. But just try and make sure that you’ve gone out and felt that wind, felt that sun, felt that rain, felt nature. It does us such incredible good.

Phil Dumontet (01:03:44.484)
It really does. And to your point earlier — less than 1% of the world’s population has ever run a marathon. And here in the U.S., the figures are anywhere from 10 to 15% of the population run or jog on a regular basis. But flip that on its head — that means 85 or 90% have not experienced the sand between their feet, the wind in their hair, the motivation it generates, the confidence it creates in all aspects of life. So there’s a huge opportunity there for more to experience it.

Hugh Brasher (01:04:09.981)
Exactly. And when you start looking at it — we talk about this quite often — don’t argue about the seven-inch pizza that exists at the moment. Go and make a 12-inch pizza.

The more that we can bring people in, the more we can bring people into this incredible, supportive ecosystem, the better it is for society. So we need to get more people to know that feeling — to join us on this journey.

Phil Dumontet (01:04:37.380)
That’s it. I always like to say when we’re talking to other race directors too — we’re not competing with other endurance events or races or marathons. We’re competing with the couch. We’re competing with inactivity. That’s what we’re competing with. It’s how do we bring more runners into the ecosystem to experience it firsthand.

What’s one thing you believe will define the next era of running?

Hugh Brasher (01:05:12.029)
Sadly, probably technology. I think the next era will just be about data — and as you’ve said, digital twins — whether it’s your heart, whether it’s your body. I think there’s some amazing stuff going on.

I have a bit of a heart problem, and my Apple Watch tells me what’s going on. I’m not a Luddite. I’m not saying technology is a bad thing. But I think it will define it — and I think we’ve got to try and measure it and use it appropriately, and not just get it to consume our everyday existence.

Phil Dumontet (01:05:48.544)
Yeah, and I guess the beauty of that is you can take what’s helpful to you — maybe it is your watch, maybe it is some kind of wearable that’s helping measure data that’s important to you — and bring that forward and leave the rest behind, but still have that human experience.

What’s one thing race directors consistently underestimate?

Hugh Brasher (01:06:10.973)
Look, this is — if there’s one thing — I think it’s probably how long, if you do any packet pickup on the day, how long it takes to do packet pickup and serve a customer.

It’s just basic maths, but it’s one of those things that we slightly think, well, if you have one person and it takes one minute — well, that one person can only serve 60 people in an hour. So actually two people — it’s only 120 people.

It’s one of the most simple calculations. And so we end up getting queues where maybe we could not have got queues. Look, every race is different. Every race director is different. But I just hope people really try and look after their events and look after their customers — because they want them to come back. We have a brilliant community.

Phil Dumontet (01:07:07.268)
What are you most excited about for the 2026 TCS London Marathon coming up very shortly here?

Hugh Brasher (01:07:17.701)
I think there’s going to be some amazing racing — both women’s and men’s. There’s potential world records in both. Catherine Debrunner was one-and-a-half seconds outside the wheelchair world record last year. Marcel Hug going for his eighth.

I think the elite side will be quite incredible. I think the number of finishes that we get — I think it will definitely be a London record, quite possibly a world record.

But every year there’s something that surprises me. I never know what it is — and it usually goes viral. A couple of years ago, a bloke wearing a Big Ben costume got stuck under the gantry, right? He got stuck under the gantry — and it was Big Ben — and that went viral around the world.

So I don’t know what it will be. But I just hope it’s going to be an amazing day, as the last few years have been — as the last 45 events have been. And really, that’s what I hope for.

Phil Dumontet (01:08:36.482)
I’m sure it will be. Absolutely.

What’s one race that you haven’t run yet — personally, you — that you want to run next on your dream list?

Hugh Brasher (01:08:46.958)
I would like to run the Bolder Boulder. That’s what I hear. It’s only 10K as well, so I think I can manage that.

But there are so many things — so many places I’ve not been and so many races I’ve not been to. I think it’s more about who you do it with.

I think I will really look forward to running the London Marathon with one of my daughters. I never ran it with my father. I think we ran in the same event, but we ran at different speeds. But I think that would be something really, really lovely — to do it together and achieve it together.

Phil Dumontet (01:09:52.728)
This is the last one, Hugh. I ask every guest to finish the sentence: The future of running is…

Hugh Brasher (01:10:01.222)
It’s in our hands. It is the future of society. And we need to nurture it, we need to treasure it, and we need to work together — because together we will achieve far more than we ever will do as individuals.

Phil Dumontet (01:10:23.940)
Beautifully said. Hugh, thank you so much. This has been an incredible conversation. We could keep going. We’ll have to continue our conversation on another run somewhere — maybe over some bridge, maybe at Bolder Boulder if you make it out this way.

Thank you so much for your time, your leadership, and for continuing to set the standard in so many ways. I know this podcast will inspire so many and offer so many insights to those who have listened. So thank you so much for joining us.

Hugh Brasher (01:10:54.103)
Thank you. And I’d just like to add — that’s part of the amazing thing about being part of the Abbott World Marathon Majors. The race directors — whether it’s Wayne that you talked about earlier, whether it’s Ted Metellus, whether it’s Carey Pinkowski — the amount of information and inspiration that we give each other and have done is quite incredible.

So again, as race directors, find your tribe of other race directors that can help you — because sometimes it can be a lonely place. And whatever inspiration I’m giving, it’s down to the people around me, it’s down to my fellow race directors as part of the Abbott World Marathon Majors, and the team there.

Phil Dumontet (01:11:38.116)
We’re all in it together, and we support each other. I’m always amazed when folks ask, “How do you even start?” Most people don’t even ask the question. They don’t even reach out. And that’s the starting point.

So thank you, Hugh. I appreciate it. We’ll talk soon.

Hugh Brasher (01:11:52.989)
Absolutely. Thank you.